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After the Future

Summing Up Saddleback

Digby: I know it's a small sample, but as Warren points out, social conservatism is not just about religion, it's a"'worldview" and McCain is the one who shares it, not…

Digby:

I know it's a small sample, but as Warren points out, social conservatism is not just about religion, it's a"'worldview" and McCain is the one who shares it, not Obama.

Sullivan:

How weird that an evangelical audience would give its biggest applause so far on domestic oil drilling.

Maybe I'm being too harsh. I guess the question is how many people with that worldview, even with Warren's more moderate version of it, can find common ground with someone like Obama. Has Warren ever come out to condemn the war?  Warren, it seems to me, is more Old Testament than New Testament, but I'll stand corrected on that by anyone who is more familiar with him. (Forrestwalker, your take?)

P.S. It could be argued, I suppose, that Obama's audience was broader than that.  Others on Main Street were watching, and for them Obama's hour might have changed some minds, even if it changed few in that audience in Orange County.

Comments

4 responses

  1. forestwalker Avatar
    forestwalker

    Warren’s well outside the SBC mainstream–the rabid Calvinists and fundamentalists in the convention both loath him. I’ve known several of his congregants who weren’t even aware they were attending a Southern Baptist church. His Christianity is definitely NT, but it’s also very American: shallow and wide, therapeutic and social rather than challenging and transformational. That’s probably too harsh, but I’m not a fan of the “seeker” model he’s adopted. Warren’s church is also not necessarily a good gauge of social conservatism as it’s populated by a large number of Orange County quasi-libertarians (most of whom would have been those with the resources to afford the 1000 bucks to attend this event).
    As for Obama and support from social conservatives, I can’t imagine it being much more than small in number and grudging. His abortion rhetoric (even more than his actual positions) makes him a no-go for most.

    Reply
  2. Matt Zemek Avatar
    Matt Zemek

    FW:
    Speak more to the shallow, wide, therapeutic elements of Mr. Warren’s Christianity. One or two for-instances, perhaps.
    Thanks.

    Reply
  3. forestwalker Avatar
    forestwalker

    It’s a problem with Evangelicalism generally. They “say the prayer” but aren’t transformed. It’s identification without transformation. Not that they’re alone in that, of course. Those in liturgical traditions often identify through baptism without transformation and Paul mocked 1st century Jews for doing the same with circumcision. The difference is that within Evangelicalism there’s not much of a tradition of anything deeper, and definitely nothing mystical. The transformation that’s cultivated tends to be merely moralistic. Many Evangelicals are truly transformed, of course, but they’re more-or-less alone (or dependent on other traditions) in discovering examples of how to go about it. There’s no trellis for them to climb, to use one of Jack’s metaphors.
    The problem is intensified under the seeker model that Warren (and virtually every pastor of a mega-church) has adopted. The idea is to make the church attractive to the uninitiated by making it familiar, non-threatening, non-demanding, and comfortable. It’s designed to appeal to and meet their social needs. That’s fine, but it’s hardly a paradigm for transformation.

    Reply
  4. Matt Zemek Avatar
    Matt Zemek

    Thanks, Forestwalker.
    You’re an astute commentator, so I always enjoy reading extended remarks whenever you’re able to provide them. Your analysis makes perfect sense, and I’m glad you fleshed out your points. It gives the ATF readership a fuller view of everything.

    Reply

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